Well, I got a 2nd response from Livejournal and basically, they don’t care…
Dear LiveJournal User thetrenchcoat,
As explained in our previous response to you, it is neither against the Terms of Service nor illegal to discuss illegal actions, or to admit to having committed them. As long as the content posted does not solicit illegal activity, it is considered allowable under both the Terms of Service and the ideal of free speech. LiveJournal is committed to preserving as much free speech as possible for its users, as long as that speech does not cross the line into invading other users’ privacy.
Users are entitled to post about topics that may be abhorrent to much of the general population, so long as they do not cross the line into solicitation or instruction of illegal acts. We respectfully suggest, if the posts in this community disturb you, that you simply cease reading them.
LiveJournal Abuse Team
So Livejournal could personally care less about the safety of children. A guy talking about wanting to have sex with his own daughter is allowable under their terms of service. I wonder how the Livejournal abuse team can sleep at night. Especially considering how many kids use Livejournal. Not to mention the fact that Livejournal has had its share of killers (Rachelle Waterman, Jeff Weise, Esmie Tseng, and child molester and killer Jet Duncan) you’d think they’d try to shy away from bad publicity.
My next step is to contact LJ’s parent company Six Apart directly at firstname.lastname@example.org. Maybe I’ll get a decent response out of them but I’m not holding my breath.
23 thoughts on “Livejournal hates your children”
Oh damn, I actually called them something worst than that when they kept Lokust’s journal going over there. I was going to send LLiveJouranls Staff a lifejacket and a one way ticket to New Orleans then tell them their hotel is underwater, if they want to stay there then they must learn to swim.
I heard about the mamma killer, and the baby raper. They suspend me but they keep them.
You had to know I would take this up.
Here is my response to LiveJournal, I hope it will get more of an active response:
Recently it was brought to your attention that some of your users have created weblogs devoted to child molestation.
Your response was, and I quote: “As long as the content posted does not solicit illegal activity, it is considered allowable under both the Terms of Service and the ideal of free speech.”
I cannot speak for your Terms of Service, of course, but the ‘ideal’ of free speech applies only to censorship by the government. As a private entity, it is entirely within your discretion to terminate these accounts.
You mention within your response that you cannot take action unless these members are inciting others to commit crimes. Again, this applies only to action by the government, but: remember that child molesters are using these sites as ways to meet and contact each other through other venues. They are well aware of publicly crossing the line, as evidenced by some of Steve Huff’s recent articles at http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/
Failing to take action, knowing this, could be construed as aiding and abetting the commission of a crime – in this case the rape of a minor, in some case, of an infant.
As a responsible administrator and citizen, I hope that you use this knowledge to take the correct action and shut down these blogs.
Here’s a link to the request, not sure if they post an answer there or just e-mail it, or both. http://www.livejournal.com/support/see_request.bml?id=499417&auth=nc88
Keep me posted and let me know what they say.
You know I will. Long weekend, not sure when I’ll get a response.
If one or more victims can be found, that were raped or molested by a pedophile keeping a blog at LiveJournal, and it can be shown that LJ was made aware of this activity and did nothing about it, a civil suit for damages on behalf of the victim/victims can be brought against the owners of LJ. Civil court does not require the absolute proof beyond all reasonable doubt that criminal courts require. All that would be necessary, is to show that a reasonable person would have their suspicions aroused by reading the content of these blogs. If a reasonable person of average intelligence would believe that illegal activity is taking place based on the writings in these pedophile blogs, when the pedophile is caught, the victim’s advocate needs to be made aware of the blog host’s complicity and civil liability. I’m sure that any of the country’s top lawyers would take such a case on a contingency retainer.
Thanks, Mike. Depending on their reply, I might have to point that out to them. Hope you don’t mind if I quote you, assuming it’s necessary. I’ll keep everyone updated.
Anybody has permission to quote me any time. If LJ drags their feet, we’ll be websluething to find the victims.
*sigh* Ok, I got the response. Here goes.
Although the specific laws and rights regarding free speech and incitement apply to government, our company has adopted the policy of providing as much free speech as possible. Our Terms of Service and Abuse policies reflect the position of our company’s overall philosophies.
If an account on our site is being used to organise illegal activity, however, we would be able to take action. In order to investigate this matter, we will need for you to go to http://www.livejournal.com/abuse/report.bml and follow the procedure described in http://www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml?faqid=105. In particular, we will need specific links to the items you believe to be in violation of the Terms of Service. A brief summary of a situation, or a cut and paste of some of the content in question, is not enough for us to begin an investigation.
LiveJournal Abuse Team
Before I start my response, I’m just going to mention that I don’t have the stomach to drag up the links, so after I post it, if anyone wants to copy and paste with links to the offenders added, feel free.
My response. I would appreciate it if someone could follow up with links to the sites on LJ in question. Like I said, I just don’t have the stomach for it. So sue me.
Recently, the existence of LiveJournal blogs/blogrings promoting and describing child molestation were brought to your attention. When pointed out that this is not protected speech, I recieved the following reply:
“Although the specific laws and rights regarding free speech and incitement apply to government, our company has adopted the policy of providing as much free speech as possible. Our Terms of Service and Abuse policies reflect the position of our company’s overall philosophies.
LiveJournal Abuse Team”
Personally, I am completely appalled that you are unwilling to shut down the blogs of users who are, by their own admission, raping children and infants. I simply cannot comprehend why anyone would need another reason to put a stop to this. However, since that is, in effect, what you are asking for, I will give it.
As a fellow poster at https://realcrime.net pointed out, LJ can and will be held civilly and financially responsible if any victims of these pedophiles are found. Here is a quote of his post:
“If one or more victims can be found, that were raped or molested by a pedophile keeping a blog at LiveJournal, and it can be shown that LJ was made aware of this activity and did nothing about it, a civil suit for damages on behalf of the victim/victims can be brought against the owners of LJ. Civil court does not require the absolute proof beyond all reasonable doubt that criminal courts require. All that would be necessary, is to show that a reasonable person would have their suspicions aroused by reading the content of these blogs. If a reasonable person of average intelligence would believe that illegal activity is taking place based on the writings in these pedophile blogs, when the pedophile is caught, the victim’s advocate needs to be made aware of the blog host’s complicity and civil liability. I’m sure that any of the country’s top lawyers would take such a case on a contingency retainer. – Mike Schuler”
I would also like to add that, if no action is taken, there is an active community that will be seeking victims to bring charges against you. I regret that these steps are necessary, however, your unwillingness to cooperate has left us with no choice.
While I don’t have the stomach to grab the links to the sites in question, I have posted your request, and trust that you will recieve them soon.
As it’s a clear admission, it could be turned over to the FBI & then they could step in and handle it…
Yeah… I contacted the FBI via their tips page about the Xanga blogs a few days ago, I’m not sure whether or not they respond to everyone, but if they do, none yet.
As StigMata said above…Trench, don’t go to the LJ admins…you need to contact the Feds if you havne’t already!
M. Seth Pack
Counter Pedophilia Investigative Unit
he’s the man to contact. i know him through P-J. he can tell you exactly who to contact with the Feds.
Still waiting on a reply to my second report to LJ, obviously. If they brush me off again, I’ll take it up with Six Apart. If Six Apart does the same… I checked their webpage, and they list their investors as August Capital and Neoteny Co., Ltd.
I wonder how’d they react to being associated with pedophiles.
They answered me – another runaround. I’ll post it below, but summary: they essentially told me, again, that there was no violation of their ToS.
As stated, we cannot begin an investigation without direct links to the material which you feel is in violation of the Terms of Service. A link to an entire journal is not sufficient as our Terms of Service (http://www.livejournal.com/legal/tos.bml) state, we do not police or screen the content of our user’s journals in any way. Without a report of violations — with direct links to the violations — we are unable to investigate this issue for you. Once we have this information we will be able to take any appropriate action.
You can get a direct link to a post by clicking on one of the comment links (in most journals, these are labeled as “Post Comment” and “Read Comments” however, the user may have customized these links). Once you have loaded the comment page for the entry, highlight the URL in the address bar of your browser, copy it, and paste it into your new request.
If there is no comment link available, then please provide the exact username of the user involved in the form of a link to their journal, and the precise date and time of the entries in question.
Once we have this information, we will be able to investigate the matter for you, and if violations of the Terms of Service exist, take any appropriate action.
LiveJournal Abuse Team
I guess the next step is to contact Six Apart. Like Trench said, not sure I should hold my breath.
Ugh. This puts me in an awkward position. I’d like to cite specific links when I contact Six Apart, but I really don’t want to go looking for them.
Trench, if you want to head up the ‘contact Six Apart’ effort, be my guest. If so, feel free to quote any and all of my previous communications with LJ. If not, let me know.
Stayed tune to a post later tonight concerning that.
Ok, last post for a while, I promise. I checked out their ToS, and here’s part of what it says about content (emphasis, of course, is mine):
(2) Should any Content be reported to LiveJournal.com as being offensive or inappropriate, LiveJournal.com might call upon the poster to retract, modify, or protect (by means of private and friends only settings) the Content in question within a reasonable amount of time, as set forth by the LiveJournal.com staff.
Now, obviously, offensive content is a broad term, but basically, they’re saying that instead of taking action against a pedophile, they’d just ask him to hide it.
Moving on, in their ToS.
(5) …LiveJournal.com and its designates shall have the right, but not the obligation, to remove any content that violates the TOS or is otherwise objectionable, or that infringes or is alleged to infringe intellectual property rights.
I dread what they would consider objectionable.
I had a nice phone conversation with agent Frank Harrill of the F.B.I. He’s in charge of investigating Internet Pedophiles. Everything has been forwarded to him. He has asked that we refrain from posting links, or making complaints to the service providers. He doesn’t want them to pull the blogs. Some of the entries are legal, but some of them have enough to immediately get warrants to seize their computers, interview their children, and investigate them for sex crimes. He appreciates our help. If you find a passage such as the post about sex with a daughter, or desires to have sex with or to groom an unamed child, or pictures of children, please forward them to me (mike2(at)mikeschuler.com), and I will forward them to agent Harrill. Here is the message he sent me:
Thanks Mike, this is very useful information.
From: Mike Schuler,
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 11:18 AM
To: Frank Harrill, F.B.I.
Subject: Internet Pedophiles
Thanks for the info, Mike. It’s nice to know they’re taking it seriously.
No more letters from me, then, but only because I’m picturing the FBI knocking on this guy’s door.
Oh really? I find that funny, as LiveJournal is infamous among us pedos as being very unfriendly towards us. They can’t do anything if we’re just talking, but the instant anyone of us puts up even the most innocent photo of a child (even a photo from a newspaper of a muslim girl in a berqua), they delete our account. One friend of mine even had his account deleted for a picture of an adult who looked like a child. He only got it back by continually insisting he could provide affadavits from the person in question to prove her position as an adult.
So you’re trying to tell me LiveJournal loves pedos? I’ll believe that when Hell freezes over and Satan starts ice-skating in a pink tutu.